JOHN MORAN - CLERMONT INN
ROSS FENN - US STATE ROUTE 9 ANDCOUNTY ROUTE 6
CLERMONT PLANNING BOARD
SEPTEMBER 10, 2008
The Clermont Planning Board held its regular meeting on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 at 7:30 P.M. at the Town Hall. Those present were Chairman Laurence Saulpaugh, Nancy Sperry, Clayton Andrus, Aldo Dusman, Garret O'Connor and Thomas Jantzen. Robert Queirolo was absent.
Others present were Andy Howard, Attorney for the Town, Dan Wheeler, Engineer for the Town, John and Nora Moran, Ernest Martin, Engineer for the Moran's, Ross Fenn, Joyce and Jim Shaw, Family Sweets and Robert Desmond.
Chairman Saulpaugh opened the meeting. A motion was made by Nancy Sperry, seconded by Garret O'Connor to approve the August minutes.
JOHN AND NORA MORAN - Clermont Inn, Route 9
Discussed August 22, 2008 letter from Columbia County Health Department to Mr. Martin regarding removal of clay overburden to gravel under the entire system footprint. Mr. Martin has spoken with the Health Department and they were never too enthusiastic about the site. They did soil exploration and agreed with the Health department that since upper soils are poor, they will remove top layer and fill with bank gravel. He agrees in principle in relation to soils, septic tank and is finalizing plans with Health department. They have dug down to gravel layer as discussed and the health department wanted to witness it. They were not happy that they were not there. Tests had been done before materials were removed and Mr. Martin will do any testing that is required. There is no pipe and the system is not being used. Chairman Saulpaugh said that the health department is having a problem with the old system. Mr. Martin said there is a conceptual agreement. The existing system was handling seven apartments and now there are five apartments. It is a substandard system and has to be replaced.
In regards to the letter, Dan Wheeler has followed up with DEC and received a written response from the person in charge of stormwater and the health department is in error. The Health Department considers this a reconstruction and the rule still goes by a five-acre disturbance. So that this portion has been resolved.
There are going to be changes from the original plan for a delicatessen, office space and ten apartments. Mr. Moran is proposing a tavern on the main floor, north of center entrance and four apartments from the five presently. The fifth apartment is on the north end and will be used as storage for the tavern. Revised plans will be submitted to DEC and the Health Department and also to the Planning Board. The original building footprint does not change and access is the same. Parking will be on the south, which has not changed; parking in the rear has been set back to give more room for access. They are eliminating the storage area that was proposed in the rear. Access would still be from Route 9, in and out and entrance only from Route 8. The pump station, aeration and septic system will be in the island in the rear.
They have proposed moving the sidewalk away from building, inline with the front entry. Tenants would enter from the rear of building. There is designated parking for the tenants in the rear, two space per apartment, customer parking on south or rear. Access to the tavern would either be through the rear of the building or from the front. The board asked how tenant parking would be designated. That could be done with signage. Aldo Dusman suggested separating tenant parking with fencing or curbing. There are fourteen spaces on the south side, and the requirement for retail is one space per 200 square feet. For the tavern that would be fifty and they have provided fifty-one, and six handicap spaces. The requirement is one for every twenty-five spaces. The dumpster area is in the rear on the one way entrance from Route 8. Chairman Saulpaugh asked about the distance on the south from the property line and septic field. Mr. Martin said it is about 25 to 30 feet. Garret O'Connor asked about drainage problems from Kahle's. They have looked at it and with the newly installed pipe there have been no problems with standing water.
DOT has issued a permit for curbing and they have a permit from the County. It has been staked out. They are waiting on the Health Dept to check the work.
There is gravel four and half feet from grade. The removed clay is no longer on site. Tom Jantzen asked about lighting. The lighting on the building has not been updated. Aldo Dusman asked about parking lot lighting. There are lights to be installed. Lights should not shine offsite. The Moran's are hoping to have the system accepted by the middle of November. Dan Wheeler is satisfied that the stormwater issue has been resolved and there is no flooding.
Garret O'Connor asked what they will do with existing septic system. Mr. Martin said that the tank would have to be excavated and removed. There is an abandonment procedure. With the field, they will pull piping out and take it away. It is part of health department approval.
The board asked for a new application for site plan approval for the amended plan. A copy of new proposal should go to Dan Wheelers office for his review.
ROSS FENN - County Route 6 and Route 9
Joyce and Jim Shaw have opened Family Sweets in what was a former store on the corner of Route 6 and Route 9. They had requested site plan approval in July and the Board made a site visit on Saturday, July 14, 2008. No one appeared in August, so a letter was written to Mr. Fenn and copied to the Shaw's with the improvements that the Board required in order to continue using the building. A notice of violation was sent by the Building Inspector John Fieser with Mr. Ross' letter.
The Shaw's wrote to Columbia County Highway seeking approval for backing out of parking in rear into Route 6 and for no parking signs on the Route 6 side of the building. They asked also for an opinion on the points referenced from the site plan review. They stated that they received approval from the County to park on County Route 6. According to the Shaw's it was explained to them by the County Highway that unless the town requests it or has something in the ordinance about parking on Route 6, they cannot put up no parking signs. If the Town requests it, the County will put up the signs. Aldo Dusman noted that the Boards concern is backing out into Route 6 from the parking area in the rear. The Shaw's maintain that the County Highway tested it and you can back up without backing into Route 6. The shrubs have been removed, giving more room in rear of store.
When asked about handicap access, the Shaw's stated that it is Federal law, that if it is a pre-existing building and there are no changes to the building, then the only suggestion is that if a handicapped person came they could take a purchase outside to them. The ramp to the side is a delivery ramp and goes into the storeroom. The back door leads to a storage room and has nothing to do with the store. It is not accessible to the store. There is a no parking sign in the window. Chairman Saulpaugh suggested putting something in the front of the store to prohibit parking in the front and to move it back so that there is better site distance on Route 9. The Shaw's don't anticipate many people at the store at one time. Usually there are four or five customers in a day. There may be four to six cars per day. Tom Jantzen noted that the Board has safety concerns and that is the most important thing.
Andy Howard pointed out that there is no approved site plan so you should not be operating. The letter from County Highway does not answer the question. The board has the right to talk about the parking. They have concerns about people backing into the county highway. We do not have anything that authorizes that it is okay to back out.
Clayton Andrus stated that the Shaw's need the letter, which gives them permission to park in the rear and back out. The letter speaks that it is under their jurisdiction for any entrance to off street parking.
Mr. Shaw - this building has been in existence for years.
The Shaw's were asked if the County said that they were going to give you a highway permit. The Shaw's responded that they were told to go ahead and open up.
Garret O'Connor stated that we are looking at the welfare and benefit of the town, and we need the comments addressed.
On the curbing issue, the Shaw's said that David Robinson of the County said that you do not need curbing. What the board would need noted on the permit is that curbing is not necessary and the board will accept it.
Dan Wheeler said what the Shaw's need from County Highway is a curve cut permit, which controls ingress and egress to the County road. It is a permit to enter the county road. The county may come back and say you need curbing or you don't.
Joyce Shaw asked if anyone gave a packet stating that you had to comply with this, this and this. It is in our zoning ordinance and was explained at the July meeting and in the letter sent to them what is required. Joyce complained about the letterhead, which the Notice of violation was issued on, because it had outdated names on it.
Clayton Andrus asked if they brought in a new sketch showing that the county approved the ingress and egress. They did not.
Nancy Sperry asked about the storeroom which is shown on the original plan, but which now does not have access to the store.
Tom Jantzen stated that we need the county permit, and they should put weights on the signs that are out front.
Andy Howard explained that they are using an existing structure, but not an existing use. The Board has a site plan application and with the fact finding that the board has done, this board needs to decide whether based upon the history of building that this type of use, whether they wish to proceed with the site plan application and sketch that they have or to proceed by holding a public hearing, with a resolution, with or without conditions. In other situations, the board has required more detail than has been presented. The board has asked for a signoff from County and State on parking issues. If the state says parking is allowed in front, then the board will accept that, if they say no parking, board would agree. Same with county and they may require some type of curbing. A public hearing will be held, if the board feels the information is sufficient, and this process has been followed for others, then the Board must determine if plans are sufficient to hold in files for the building department.
Ross Fenn said that no one has talked to him about curbing in the front of the store. Joyce said that DOT has already been down and talked to Ross about tenants.
Any site plan on Route 9, the applicant must notify DOT.
Joyce would like to know if the store could stay open until this is resolved and Jim
respectfully asked if they can stay open. Tom Jantzen and Andy Howard agree that there is a liability issue for the Town.
The board has not asked for a map prepared by a surveyor, but they can ask for specification of location of parking, hours of operation and other matters that the board feels are necessary, as listed in the site plan review. When the public hearing is scheduled, notice will be given to adjoining landowners and by notice to town residents. In connection, they require permit approval from State DOT and County Highway and accordance with all regulations. They are obligated to issue a positive or negative declaration of SEQRA, and they can approve with or without conditions. When the approval is granted, it is an approval that goes with the property and makes your property more valuable. You would have a documented track record of the approval.
Nancy Sperry would motion to put this off until we have the proper paperwork from DOT and County and the applicants talk to John Fieser on Thursday night, 6-8 P.M. Nancy withdrew this motion. Andy Howard explained that as it stands right now, they are in violation, which means you get the approval or stop using it. You are subject to violation from Mr. Fieser in which fines could be imposed. Joyce Shaw asked if they would be able to open the store tomorrow.
Andy Howard explained that the process could be that John Fieser has the discretion to serve you with town court information for violating code. It is a fine that he could seek to levy and that would be decided by a local court judge. If he decides it is ongoing and needs immediate action, he could ask the Town Board to get an injunction in county court to stop action.
Ross Fenn asked if the parking applies to the rest of the businesses in town. If there is a change to property then it is required.
Ross Fenn asked what would happen if DOT says they need $10,000 worth of curbing, is there another way that they could cord off the front and have legal parking in the rear. It was recommended that the Shaw's not open on Thursday, but go in to speak to John Fieser. It is not the Planning Board's job to enforce; it is up to our Building Inspector.
A motion was made to adjourn by Nancy Sperry and seconded by Garret O'Connor at 9:45 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Mary Helen Shannon
Planning Board Secretary